Scott Baier Interviews Adoptive Parents John and Lorraine White on Life Matters

Because of you, our non profit medical clinic sheds light on every pregnancy option a woman faces, including adoption. In this latest episode of Life Matters, CEO Scott Baier interviews adoptive parents John and Lorraine White to discuss the adoption process, language, misconceptions, and more because adoption deserves to be viewed in a positive light.

Life Matters Episode 4

Scott Baier: And welcome to this special presentation of Life Matters, where we cover issues related to the sanctity of and protection of human life from the womb to the tomb, from the beginning to the end. Because quite frankly, life matters. My name is Scott Beyer. I’m the CEO of Community Pregnancy Clinics, and we are the largest group of crisis pregnancy resource centers in the state of Florida. And we are so happy that you’re here with us. We offer women love so that they can become more love able. When they feel lovable, they feel lovable. So we provide a lot of resources, from pregnancy tests to ultrasounds to STI testing, to compassionate care and counseling. But also one of our major things that we offer are referral services to the local community. We know that most women in this country don’t know what’s available to them. Men and women don’t know the resources that are available to them. So we make it a point to offer the resources and connect them with people that are available with care and compassion. And so one of those referral services that we focus on, of course, is the adoption option, right? So we know from a recent study actually that adoption ranks very high in what people care about, but it ranks very low on what people actually know about, right? So it’s an often misunderstood topic. And it’s I’m so excited today because we have two very special guests with us today who are going to help us dive a little deeper into what adoption is and and what it can be for more people, we hope, around the world. So I am blessed. We are blessed to have John in the Rain White with us today, who are an amazing couple, friends of mine and also people who have adopted four children in the last six years. I didn’t even know if that was possible or legal, but they’re going to explain a little bit about that. And so let’s dive right in. John and Lorraine, thank you for being with us. You guys are amazing and we’re so happy to have you with us here today.

Lorraine White: Oh, well, thank you, Scott. And all glory to God for sure.

Scott Baier: Absolutely. Absolutely. So my first question is, what first led you to kind of go down the the path to even even think about adoption and actually pursue it?

Lorraine White: Do you want to answer that?

Lorraine White: Really, with all things it began with our prayer and our discernment. John and I both knew when we got married we wanted to have a large family, and we believe that children are a blessing and that the marriage is focused around children or should be focused around children and raising them in the faith. And we really were just following God’s will when we were basically wanting to explore the manifestation of the love we had between the two of us in children. And early on in our marriage, we discovered that we were having some fertility issues. And I know that’s a very common thing and people don’t talk about it, and a lot of people are suffering in silence about that. And when we took it to prayer after some losses that we had, it was very evident that we were being prompted to explore adoption. And so that’s kind of how we first started, is really discerning what God’s will was for us, which we knew was to grow our family through children. And then the Lord, which is just always so awesome, opened our doors, opened the doors for us to adoption. We knew people who had adopted. We knew people who were adopted. And the more we talked about it, the more the doors just started opening to this path of adoption and we started exploring it more. And so what else do you want to add?

Scott Baier: Do you have any what are the hurdles that you face? What are the like, what’s that discernment process look like for the first one, much less the fourth one?

Lorraine White: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You want to talk about the discernment because you talked a little bit when we were speaking earlier about we kind of got on our knees and prayed.

John White: And yeah, the hurdles is prayer always in conformance with the Catholic Church and the Catholic teachings and in a lot of prayer after that, it’s what kind of paperwork do we need to take a look at and let’s just get the paperwork done. I don’t know what what really hurt.

Lorraine White: Yeah, I think the hurdles are like you said in the opening, Scott, the unknown. We really although we knew about adoption, we probably had more misconceptions about adoption than a true belief in understanding of what it’s really about. And so the biggest hurdles we had were where do we start? What do we do? Even if it’s something that we’re being called to, where do we start? And we discovered through prayer that one of the best things we can do to start is obviously bring it to the Lord. And then he kept bringing people into our paths to talk to people about. So one of my biggest recommendation is if people are discerning adoption, whether you’re on the birth. Here at side or whether you’re on the adaptive family side is to talk to other people who have adopted and talk to them about what the experience was like, what to do to be prepared for that. As John mentioned, some of the common hurdles that people think about are like paperwork and the tedium that it goes along with that. But in reality, for us anyway, that was time consuming, but not the most difficult thing, really.

Scott Baier: All right. And maybe it would help us because I’m coming in kind of as a novice. I know about adoption. I’ve seen it work for friends and family, but some of the terms can be kind of confusing, right? So you have open and closed and you have private versus agency. Maybe you could dive a little bit into those concepts.

Lorraine White: I think that’s a great idea. I had a stack of books about this high and it kept getting higher about what is, you know, this and the language and the lingo and it can be very intimidating. But the reality of it is and, and my mom always had great advice. She she would tell me when I was trying to understand something, she said, you know, no one was born knowing this. So take your time, kind of go through it and learn. Um, there are different paths to adoption. There is the private track, which just simply means that the way in which you identify a birth mother or they call it an expectant mother until she actually gives birth, is private. So you may know somebody, you may know a family member, you may know somebody that you’ve come into contact with in a crisis pregnancy. And then there’s the agency side of it, which means the agency helps to find the birth mother, helps to counsel her, helps walk her through the entire path. So there’s really just in general two ways. There’s some blended ways of that, too. And then how you interact with the birth family after you’ve been placed with the child is open or closed. It used to be quite some time ago, most adoptions were closed adoptions and it was really the culture then. But over time, people have discovered and learned about the sanctity of life, the dignity of the child, the dignity of the mother, that one of the best things to do is have it be open. Now, even in that, as you mentioned, Scott, there’s kind of misconceptions about that, right? It’s not co-parenting by any means. It’s really it can vary. There is a range or a spectrum of open. It can mean simply sending pictures to the agency, and the agency acts as the conduit to the birth mother. Or it can mean as much as having visits. And all of that is worked out before there is an actual adoption. And what’s beautiful is most of the time, and I would recommend this if this is something that you’re considering being an adoptive parents or adoptive family is, it’s centered around the birth mother’s needs. So if the birth mother wants it to be closed for a variety of different reasons, that’s honored if the birth mother wishes it to be open or semi-open open. That’s what is honored. And it really is all worked out before the placement. So you don’t all of a sudden have a baby in your lap and wonder, well, are we supposed to have visits? Are we not supposed to have visits? And that’s part of the discernment process, too. So we had to talk about that. And maybe you can talk a little bit about how we discerned open versus closed or.

John White: Yeah, yeah. Each one. There may be some stigma attached to it as when you’re placed with a child you may not want this is beforehand, you may not want the interference, so to speak, in regards to birth families. But I know over time you fall in love with the placement family, with the birth family, you want them in their lives. What may have been perceived as a hurdle going back to the previous question is is easily understood. Once you hold the child and once you interact with the families and how you want them in their lives and how there is a birth order structure and how there is a birth family structure and how they can enrich the family and alleviate questions maybe down the road where you may have an issue with a child in regards to understanding what their background is and where they came from and who they came from can all be alleviated in having interaction with the birth family. In fact, I’d be as bold to say, is we wish we had more interaction with the birth families.

Scott Baier: Interesting. Yeah. Maybe with your four children that you have now. Beautiful children, by the way, I see him at mass. And thank you. Just a joy to see your face. And I’m sure you hear them.

John White: You’re right.

Scott Baier: Sometimes. But that’s okay, you know? But it’s a beautiful thing to see a family growing through this means of adoption. And again, most people want to learn more about. So could you share any specific stories? Of one of the four. We don’t have time for all four, but maybe choose one that stands out. That would be especially good, I guess. Good for us to hear.

Lorraine White: Yeah, it is hard to pick which one, but they each have elements that we’ve talked about so far in terms of overcoming hurdles and discerning, you know, open versus closed. But I think our second youngest well, our our youngest son, but our second youngest was born during the pandemic and he was born early. So he was only 30 weeks gestation, which was requiring some medical intervention. He was in ICU for two weeks. And the reason I think that that one stands out is because how compelling it is that everybody who surrounded him, his birth mother, his birth family, were fighting for his life and they moved heaven and earth to save his life and to respect his dignity. Right. So he was born not too long after, some would say, is the age of viability. And they there was no question about it. The EMTs, the doctors, everybody just surrounded and and supported him. And I think that that’s part of why that comes to mind when we talk about how unique that is, especially what’s happening during the time when there was so much closure and people were concerned about contacting, being in contact with people. And if you could see him now, he’s 100% healthy, 100% active and all because people took a chance on him, his birth mother, and surrounded him with the love and the medical care that he needed. And we didn’t. We knew nothing about taking care of a child who was premature.

John White: And just continuing that story in regards to our to our son, first prayer. I know I prayed in front of Saint Joseph’s statue at Saint Pius, the 10th church back in Rochester, New York Daily, to add to the family. Um, on May 1st, 2020, we got the call from the agency in regards to the possible placement.

Lorraine White: We had just finished the devotion, the consecration to St. Joseph.

John White: Consecration of Saint Joseph and the birth mother wanted Joseph included in the name in some particular way. So that’s the outlay, that’s the outlay of the prayer aspect, um, that, that introduced it, but also to Scott in regards to how God prepares you. Um, we had another opportunity in regards to even before our son about a premature baby, a micro-preemie, and we really discern that in prayer. God seemed to prepare us not so much for that particular child, but for our son to come along. We read up on Micro-preemie, we read up on premature children, and sure enough, months later, through prayer, think and the intercession of Saint Joseph, we received our son who was a premature, but we were ready to handle it as God led us in that direction.

Scott Baier: Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, I know there’s people out there who are either thinking about adoption or contemplating it, praying about it, hopefully. What are some common questions? And I would even say misconceptions that people often say to you or ask you about, because even I you know, we talked earlier, John Lorraine, and I was reminded that it’s not, you know, giving up your child for adoption, you know, from the birth mom point of view, it’s placing the child for adoption. Is that maybe one misconception that you could address?

Lorraine White: Yeah. Think it’s a small but important nuance is the language that we talk about. Um, and if there’s one thing that you can take away from this, it would be to put the birth family at the center of it. Even if you’ve been longing for children and you feel like you really have a right to children, which we don’t, they’re a blessing. Put the birth family at the center. Because I think the misconception is if you have fertility issues or if you want to grow your family and you’re not having fertility issues and you want to grow it through adoption, it can become this obsession. And if you can just remember, put the birth family at the center of this, they, in fact are the ones that are gifted with the actual child within them and are going through a lot to make that decision. So it’s not giving up because this child will always be part of their life story. Our most recent child that we just adopted, our baby girl, her birth family is tremendous and we stay in touch with them. So one of the misconceptions for this birth mother, so adoptive parents or parents who may be pursuing adoption need to understand this is she thought she had to. This was even in the hospital. We were with her. She thought she had to cut ties altogether. When do. Mentally, When do I have to cut ties? She said. And we said,”never!”

John White: When you will not become a mother.

Lorraine White: Yeah, we said, “You’ll always be her mother. God has ordained you to bring her to life and we to raise her.” And that took such a weight off of her shoulders. And she said she would always remember that. And she wrote a beautiful sentiment about that to us. So that’s one of the misconceptions, is they’re not giving them up. They think that psychologically a hard thing to do. And I think another misconception is it’s very expensive and I could never do it. They just don’t have time to do it. Well, if you start now, the process can unfold in the way that the Lord really ordains. Meaning it will work. We never expected to adapt. We wanted to. We never expected to have four children in six years. But when the Lord wants something to happen, it happens. And my mother also has a saying, God bless her. I always think so many things from her. But she says, you know, the time is going to go by anyway, so why not be prepared and doing some of these things? And if you really are called to life like most of us, and many of us are, be prepared to have a home study so that if a child does. Have an opportunity to be placed, you have a home that can be considered. And as far as the finances, you know, like my husband always says, the Lord will find a way for that and don’t let that be the obstacle. There is everything from grants to loans to, um, you know, crowd sourcing, funding, things like that. So if this is something you’re called to, I would just put that away. So those are some of the, I think the, the misconceptions. What else do you think, what other misconceptions?

John White: I think on the adoption side, there’s sometimes the will of God is very difficult to find. You know, what does he really want from us? Through the adoption process, you grow into detachment. Sometimes you’re presented with a placement case. Maybe you’re one of ten couples and you really have to detach from whatever’s selected and your heart may be broken. It may not be. You may be selected, you may not be. But there’s such an abandonment to God’s will when it comes to adoption, to that you just embrace. I mean, we can say that now after four children, but we would like 100 children. But but even beforehand, even before our first child, it was like, if you’re not selected, you adopt them in your heart spiritually. And for the ones that you haven’t been selected for, you name them. At least it helped us. And you understand that this is God’s perfect will and you accept it and you’re just as a joyed over a placement of one child to another family as you are being placed with a child for yourself and you really you trust in God’s will a lot more. At least I have through this particular process. And the will of God is is very evident when a selection is made. And you you find joy in that, whether you’re selected or not.

Speaker2: I would just build on that. Scott, one more thing that’s a misconception and think this is probably one of the top misconceptions is I could never love a child that’s not biologically mine, right? And we mean people think that they may not state it, but they say, oh, well, you know, I want a child that look like me and I want a biological child. And, um, it couldn’t be further from the truth. I will just say that there is a supernatural intervention that once you’re connected, it is an unbelievable bond that it’s you. It’s hard to put into words just like your love for your biological children, your love for this child and their birth family is just beyond measure. And I heard it said one time, how could you bring this person into your life and their family and you’re not related to them through blood? And then someone reminded and said, Well, that’s what your spouse is in marriage. You’re not blood related, but you love them. You don’t aren’t related to their family, but you love them. And so it’s a it’s a small reminder that the Lord has his hand in this and it is supernatural. And once you hold that child, it’s your child to love and to just adore because it’s such a gift. So that’s one of the misconceptions. I could never love the child if they’re not biologically mine.

Scott Baier: Beautiful. I was just as you were talking, I just was reminded of the Holy Family. Did Joseph love Jesus? Jesus? Yeah. He loved him more than he that he you know, it’s this beautiful example of the holy family that you guys also represent and amplify or exemplify. Now, tell me one of the other questions from the adoptive parent world is some people explore stateside adoption agencies and others foreign adoptions. Can you speak to that and what that process might be look like in different ways?

Lorraine White: Yes, it’s a great question that does go up early on in the process in terms of determining whether or not you’re called to adopt domestically or internationally. And it’s an important consideration to take into account. And there are different aspects of that We adopted all domestically and our friends have adopted internationally. And it really depends on what you’re called to and you’ll probably know what you’re called to. Um, and I think it has to do with several parts of the, the, the adoptive family. So what are you prepared for? There is a lot of travel in the international and oftentimes you have to remain in that country for a certain amount of time. Some agencies have a longer waiting list for international because the US has been excluded from several countries. So it’s not to discourage, but it’s a different process that you go down. So those are some of the things that take into account can you leave and can you be out of the country for as long as it will take? Sometimes it takes 30 days or more for an international. Yeah, the actual placement process, when you have to be in the country and domestic, sometimes it’s out of state. So you may be out of state for just as long. So that’s one of the things to take into account. And really just understanding the paperwork is a little bit different. You still have to have a home study, but some of the paperwork and clearance processes are different. Like in the United States, you have to have background checks and things like that. You have to do that as well in this country, as well as the other country that you might be adapting from. So really, it’s it’s, I believe, less about the child because your child is out there somewhere and the Lord will bring you together with him or her. But the tactical process in terms of like the paperwork and things like that.

Scott Baier: Gotcha. Thank you for that. Now, tell me the begging or the question that is driving me in my brain right now is we know there’s more adoptive parents potentially out there than there are babies up for adoption or that are placed there. What’s the disparity like? What’s causing this? So many more on this side and so few in this side? Can you speak to that?

Lorraine White: I know. Yes. Yes. Sadly, you know, I think there’s a number of factors, not the least of which is fertility rates are down. You know, there’s a lot of questions as to why that might be the case. But there’s a lot of research you can go out and do about why fertility rates are down, meaning people aren’t having babies that would be placed for adoption. And then clearly the other is the prolific, um, adoption abortion industry and how pervasive it is and how I’ll just say diabolic it is in child sacrifice, child killing. So these babies don’t make it to the to living, to be adopted, to be loved. And I think a third piece of that that is layered into that abortion industry is the lies that these birth mothers are told that they can just have an abortion and the problem will go away. And these birth mothers that we’ve worked with and expectant moms and moms in crisis pregnancies that we’ve worked with in other ministries, they’ll say, clearly, I could never choose adoption as an option because I don’t want someone else to raise my child. I would rather and I would have a clearer conscience if I had an abortion. And obviously, they’re not thinking straight, right? So there’s something going on that’s that’s misaligned because a mother is ordained and gifted to love the child within her. And when the media and the culture of death overshadows that, it’s a diabolic entity that’s happening. So I would say that there’s things of the world princess, you know, principalities and things of this world that are at play as well as spiritual warfare. No woman wants to have an abortion. No woman wants that as an option. But she feels coerced. She feels like she has no other choice. And there are choices. And adoption is a beautiful option. And regardless of the fact that there are so many people who want to adopt and fewer children that are being placed, that’s not a reason not to pursue it, because that’s something that went through our heads, Oh, how long are we going to have to wait for? And, you know, it’s an act of humility to say we’re going to put ourselves out there regardless of whether we’re selected or not. So I think those are some of the factors that are driving the reason that there are more people who want to adopt than there are children that are placed for adoption.

John White: Yeah, I think there’s a spiritual influence, a negative spiritual influence, much like your question in regards to adoption, um, in some of the hurdles, some of these are just perceived fears because when you get into it and much like this world is contrary, it’s like these beautiful women. Who find themselves in a birth situation or, you know, are told one thing that they can do everything but at the cost of their child, which is a lie, too. And your your organization and many of the organizations that we’ve dealt with are are able to provide whatever they may need from furniture to money to places to live to testings. And it goes on and on and on. There’s a big heart in a lot of these organizations to help these beautiful women, really to meet what God’s God’s will and expectations of them are. It’s it can be done. You can have it all. You can have it all in this particular world with the help of your organization, Scott and many other like yours.

Scott Baier: Yeah, I think the great phrase there that we should all be reminded about is we can love them both, right? And it’s going to involve sacrifice. Nothing worthwhile is easy. You know, I I’m reminded of you mentioned the abortion industry, how they tried the shout your abortion several years ago campaign. It failed miserably because people don’t want to shout about something that they’re that they know was wrong. They maybe feel guilt over having, you know, they felt forced or they maybe were compelled by other factors that they wish they weren’t able to that they were able to handle at the time. So I think at this point, it’s a good point to kind of jump over. Let’s focus on the the birth mom perspective. And we have a short video. I think it’s a good story to kind of exemplify maybe what some of those factors are that are involved when a woman is choosing between adoption and abortion.

Video: I found out I was unexpectedly pregnant about a year and a half ago at age 27. It was actually the same age that my birth mom was when she found out that she was also unexpectedly pregnant and decided to place for adoption. So I went in to have surgery. The nurse came in and told me that I could not have surgery. I was pregnant. And I remember I actually laughed. I thought it was a joke. I decided I didn’t want to do an abortion. I wanted to place for adoption. So the day I went to have lunch with my caseworker for the first time, I had actually already picked a family. I had found them on the adoption agency’s website, probably 160 profiles, and I went through every single one of them. I finally came across this couple and I remember clicking on their profile because they kind of looked like us, you know, just the way that Chase spoke about Jessica in this profile very much moved me. And then I get to the very bottom and turns out she is adopted too, and she could not have kids of her own. And that was my aha moment. We asked them if they had a boy name picked out and they, without any hesitation, told us for seven years they’ve had the name Wyatt picked out. And so from that day on, he was Wyatt. No one chooses adoption for for selfish reasons. I firmly, firmly believe that it’s a very difficult thing to go through, and anybody that chooses adoption is 100% placing not only their child but another family before themselves. There has never been a day like placement day. The hardest part of signing the papers was hearing. That we could never change our minds. And of course you think that’s an obvious thing, but there’s something very surreal about hearing it read out loud while I’m holding Wyatt. It was tough. And from there we took Wyatt into a room with my whole family. It was just like this sweet little party. You know, we were all happy. After about 15 minutes, we went in to hand Wyatt to Chase and Jessica. That was the hardest moment for me. Only because you are literally handing your child over to his new mom and dad. I just wanted something for Wyatt that we could not give him. I wanted him to have everything I had because of the decision my biological mom made. Emotions came from fear. Fear of the stigma that unplanned pregnancies are a life ruiner. And I would just tell myself that something so beautiful came out of it. I gained not only a son, but I gained his parents. Chase and Jessica, who are like the brother and sister I’d never had as an only child. I gained an entire community through my adoption agency, through Brave Love, through other birth moms, and I never thought something so unexpected and so traditionally negative would actually be the best thing that ever happened to me.

Scott Baier: So isn’t that beautiful? The final statement she said there was the best thing that ever happened to me. So any thoughts on that? You might have a similar experience as at your placement days? You’ve had four of them.

Lorraine White: Yes. Yes. Um, boy, I see all four of our birth mothers in her, just in the sense that, um, you know, she never thought of abortion is what her testimony is. And some of our birth mothers were the same. Others were pressured by the birth fathers to have an abortion and don’t know this young lady’s story, but there probably were at least an overhanging of that option. Um, and so I love seeing that because it’s so genuine, it’s so sincere and it’s so consistent with what we’ve seen, where the birth mother feels, this journey that she’s going through. First, it’s unknown, it’s scary. And then there’s this courage that comes about from really from the Holy Spirit to do this and that. He blesses it. So all of a sudden and we’ve heard this from our birth families and we feel it, as John mentioned earlier, you feel this connection to their family. They are now family. We consider them family. And there’s a healing in that. And you heard her saying so, so beautifully that it wasn’t what she expected. It was more you know, it was beyond what she thought it would be. And we feel the same way. We feel so humbled that these birth moms would choose life and go through all of that, go through the pregnancy, go through, you know, misconceptions, perceptions, stigmas, and then to give us the greatest gift that we don’t deserve, but we just adore. I mean, that that’s really I applaud her. I applaud all birth mothers that go this route. And to see her healing through this connection is what Jesus is all about, right? It’s all about community and the body of Christ. And so I think it’s just just stunning that these these birth mothers, that they are so courageous. And I’ve always made the commitment, we’ve made the commitment to our birth mothers that their children that we are raising will always know their love and courage and their choice.

John White: Yeah, I think in this day and age, these women find themselves in unexpected situations. But to bring a child to life in this day and age, they’re truly heroes. Um, for sure that what goes along with their, their, their fears are real and challenges are real. And criticisms may be real, but they, they press on. And especially with our the birth families that we have dealt with and deal with regularly, they’re heroes to bring a child to life. And then even more, they’re self-sacrificing to turn this beautiful child over to two couples is just. They have such big hearts and such big hearts.

Scott Baier: I’m curious now if going through nine months of relationship with the birth mom, is there ever a fear factor of, oh, what if she has a second thought on placement day or, you know, like, does that that’s got to be a real concern. But can you speak to that? Is it common? Does it ever happen?

Lorraine White: That’s a good question. And it goes back to your earlier question about, you know, misconceptions or hurdles is to really be prepared for anything, just like you would with a biological pregnancy. And I would say that our most recent adoption, our baby girl, we were blessed with knowing her birth mother from almost the very beginning of her pregnancy, where the others it was later, which is common, by the way. Usually the birth mothers don’t make an adoption plan until like the third trimester. Um, there’s a lot of reasons about why as to why, but for our most recent adoption, we were blessed because we got to know her throughout that pregnancy. And that was an emotional roller coaster because sometimes we would hear from her a lot. See, this was something we had contact with her directly. Um, sometimes we hear from her a lot. We get a lot of texts. We got a lot of calls. How are things going? And then things would go dark and. And that’s okay. That’s life. That’s how it happened. That’s how it goes. And I think because we have had the experience of our other adoptions before that, we were able to, you know, understand more about what was going on. And you kind of go to these places like, oh my goodness, what’s going to happen? But the reality of it is that’s her choice. That’s her child. And this is something we have to give her her space for. And then we find out later. It was nothing to do with any Ms.. You know, any misgivings or any second thoughts about placing for adoption. It was life was happening. You know, our daughter was born right around Christmas time. And so there was all these things happening for her. So I think that’s kind of what we were going through when we were with her for the whole nine months.

John White: Yeah. And it also goes back to my previous point in regards to trusting God’s will and what’s best for you. I mean, you know, God has a plan and you surrender to it whether we’ve committed, you know, some financial input to it or time into it or emotion or our hearts is God has it. You detach and you just trust and whatever, whatever is best for God’s perfect will, we will accept. And we’ve kind of had that in our mind, whether it be, um, whether it be international adoption or whether it be stateside, whether it be any type of circumstances. It’s just first we establish ourself and trusting in God’s will and this is what we’re going to do and this is how we’ll handle it. And, and at times the feelings and emotions get a little to get a lot and that’s tested. Um, but we can fall back on the Lord and on his will. This is his will. This is what He desires and we will be obedient and we will submit.

Scott Baier: Fantastic. That’s great advice for life, not just for adoption.

John White: Well, it’s easy for adoption. I don’t know, Scott, but for life…

Scott Baier: It applies. Now, that’s kind of the words or advice. One of my questions is going to be, what would you say if if you have people out there who are contemplating giving up? Sorry, I misused the term placing the baby for adoption or keeping it or unfortunately, maybe some are out there even thinking of abortion. What would you say to them directly?

Lorraine White: Well, take it to the Lord. The first thing is, you know, go go in prayer, wherever it is that you can connect without anything going on around you, where it’s just you and the Lord, not these voices of people around you necessarily, and try to think about what what that is, you know what that that plan for you is. And the other is talk to people. Talk to people who have gone through the experience of adoption and and think also, you know, be not afraid really. There’s so much that is causing fear in people’s lives. And think if you can honestly say, as John mentioned earlier, I accept whatever the outcome of this is and I give it all to you, you know, Mary’s Fiat, be it done unto me, then you’re ready to take the next step, whatever the Lord is calling you to, whatever that next step is. But it can’t be something that you’re holding on to your desired outcome. That’s how it is in life and that’s how it is for for this process and for the birth mothers and the expectant moms. You know, you can do this. This is something that, you know, you are strong, you are courageous, you are already a mother. And no one can ever take that away from you.Going down the path of placing for adoption will enhance that because you will have the support. Worth that you need through the agencies, through the adoptive families. It’s an enhancement. It’s not a disruption. And that’s what we talk about also with our birth families. This is not the end. It’s the beginning. It’s the beginning of a beautiful story that is about to unfold. And you are part of that story. So just be courageous. Be not afraid and reach out to the people around you after you’ve taken it to the Lord to understand what the best path is. And, you know, as far as the possibility of of abortion, that is a life long decision for a moment in time. And there’s so much pain and there’s so much anguish and there’s so much regret associated with that. I say take that off the table altogether. You’re not going down that path. You are going to go either parent because you can do it or you’re going to place for adoption and have this community around you. But that’s that’s you know, abortion is not an option. And in your heart, you know that it’s not an option. It’s not a viable option.

Scott Baier: So absolutely beautiful, so beautiful. So and I will say, your example, guys, is great for the world, great for people to hear. We’re going to try to push this program as many places as possible so they can hear the testimony of people who have lived it and are living it. And like you said, it involves sacrifice, It involves prayer, it involves giving of ourselves. But that’s what we’re called to do on this earth. So thank you for that example. Any practical programs or places where people can go look for more information because we may have some people out there who are really thinking, okay, what can I do next other than prayer? And you know, what practically can people do if they’re contemplating adoption?

Lorraine White: I would say the first thing to do is to discern an agency or a community resource that is well versed in adoption and talk to them. If you’re an expectant mom, you’re in the driver’s seat. You know, talk to them about what their process is like. And if it doesn’t seem like it’s birth mother centered or birth family centered, I would move on. And as far as for adoptive parents, same thing is true. Our agency is beautiful because they provide counseling and training both for the birth family as well as for the adoptive. And I would say take advantage of any training that you can do because it will help you to learn about yourself. We even went through foster care training and that helped us to learn and understand what our family was, is capable of and what we are really called to. So I would say take advantage of the training that agencies have and also talk to other people who have been through the adoption process or who are in fact adopted because think they have a beautiful story to to tell.

Scott Baier: And I’ll just throw in there a website called that I became an ambassador for. And it’s just a great warehouse. That video that we showed earlier was from that website. And there’s you can find different agencies in your state and just kind of videos about the process and about what what it all entails. I might plug this video to be added to their website actually, because it was so good. So guys, thank you so much. You know, sacrificing your time today but also for the great example that you’re giving the world. We know John Paul II said the future of humanity passes through the family and we’re looking at a family here. We don’t see your kids. You know, they were being babysat during this so we could have the quiet time together.

Lorraine White: But they’re sitting so quietly over here.

Scott Baier: They’re over there napping. Right. So, no, but thank you for the example that you’re giving the world and to our church and to all of us today. So thank you guys so much for being with us.

Scott Baier: All glory to God and God bless you all.

Lorraine White: Glory to God. And we would make ourselves available to anybody who wants to talk about the adoptive family process or adoption process. That’s something that we’re more than happy to talk to folks.

Scott Baier: Thank you for that. Well, friends, we’ve had a great show today. We’re reminded that Jesus says he is the way, the truth and the life. You know, our nation’s founding documents protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and life comes first. In John chapter ten, verse ten, Christ says, I came to bring life and to bring it more abundantly. So those of us in the pro-life movement are just not just pro birth. We’re pro life, we’re pro abundant life, and we’re pro eternal life. And I think John and Lorraine are a great example of that for us today. So thank you for being with us here today. We look forward to seeing you next time. And remember, you are loved.

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